Comments on: Gaza Citizens Calling Asking Americans to Vote For Obama http://www.rwnj.org/2008/10/29/gaza-citizens-calling-asking-americans-to-vote-for-obama/ Conservative Views from Cincinnati Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:14:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: admin http://www.rwnj.org/2008/10/29/gaza-citizens-calling-asking-americans-to-vote-for-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-53 admin Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:58:18 +0000 http://www.rwnj.org/?p=105#comment-53 No worries. When it comes to politics, knee-jerk reactions are natural. It's easy to read something with someone else's bias and it does something when it combines with your own pre-established views to make it sound totally different than intended. Happens to me quite often, lol. Given the intelligence that was at hand at the time, Iraq was arguably very <a href="http://www.gaypatriot.net/2005/12/29/chicago-tribune-iraq-war-was-justified/" rel="nofollow">justified</a>. Saddam was still <a href="http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_deathsundersaddamhussein42503.html" rel="nofollow">killing civilians</a>, the <a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004612" rel="nofollow">world thought he had WMD's</a>, and <a href="http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/14906.htm" rel="nofollow">Iraq was not abiding by U.N. resolutions</a>. The situation at hand left the door open and <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/" rel="nofollow">both the house and senate approved the war resolution</a> (yes, both Republicans and Democrats). In hindsight, things weren't entirely what was thought. Though I believe that was by Saddam's design. How hard is it to believe that Saddam actually <b>wanted</b> the world community to think he had WMDs? It made him look powerful and I doubt he thought that anyone had the courage to engage him in a direct conflict. He also wasn't budging with diplomacy, so in his eyes it was the easiest victory he could find. Now that we are in this war our hands are tied. We've thankfully moved from the Bush strategy of "stay the course" to one that is more of a "let's win this and go home". The biggest mistake was that we fought the war half-assed, causing the mess we had to fight through. We don't have a choice but to find victory in Iraq now. If we leave without the Iraqi's in control of their own country, we will leave Iraq vulnerable and a haven for more terrorist organizations to form. The mess is made, it has to be cleaned up for the good of the entire world, not just the U.S. No worries. When it comes to politics, knee-jerk reactions are natural. It’s easy to read something with someone else’s bias and it does something when it combines with your own pre-established views to make it sound totally different than intended. Happens to me quite often, lol.

Given the intelligence that was at hand at the time, Iraq was arguably very justified. Saddam was still killing civilians, the world thought he had WMD’s, and Iraq was not abiding by U.N. resolutions. The situation at hand left the door open and both the house and senate approved the war resolution (yes, both Republicans and Democrats).

In hindsight, things weren’t entirely what was thought. Though I believe that was by Saddam’s design. How hard is it to believe that Saddam actually wanted the world community to think he had WMDs? It made him look powerful and I doubt he thought that anyone had the courage to engage him in a direct conflict. He also wasn’t budging with diplomacy, so in his eyes it was the easiest victory he could find.

Now that we are in this war our hands are tied. We’ve thankfully moved from the Bush strategy of “stay the course” to one that is more of a “let’s win this and go home”. The biggest mistake was that we fought the war half-assed, causing the mess we had to fight through.

We don’t have a choice but to find victory in Iraq now. If we leave without the Iraqi’s in control of their own country, we will leave Iraq vulnerable and a haven for more terrorist organizations to form. The mess is made, it has to be cleaned up for the good of the entire world, not just the U.S.

]]> By: Patty http://www.rwnj.org/2008/10/29/gaza-citizens-calling-asking-americans-to-vote-for-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Patty Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:19:40 +0000 http://www.rwnj.org/?p=105#comment-49 I guess I jumped to conclusions in thinking that you were trying to throw "Hamas" into the conversation as another way to get people riled up about what this young man was doing. I apologize. My only conclusion with this article is that if I were to put myself into this young man's shoes I could understand his desire to support Obama for President of the United States. Obama has been better at coming across as being willing to use diplomacy and to listen to other viewpoints and opinions. McCain has only derided Obama for his comments on sitting down to talk to leaders, which comes across as not being willing to do the same, regardless of whether it's in person or through an ambassador or other official. I can see where this young man could get that opinion of Obama versus McCain, even if it's not fair or correct. I think it's admirable that this young man is getting an education and is showing an interest in international politics. It shows a desire on his part to better his life and I think his phone calls are just an extension of this. Whether or not Obama would actually be the better choice is a whole other debate. I think it may be a bit naive for this man to think that any President will actually be able to improve conditions for him in his country. But it's not naive to still hope for that. Especially when you live under the shadow of Hamas. Think about how hard it really would be to effect change in his country. Heck, think about how hard it is for one citizen to effect change in OUR country! It's not impossible, but if it were more attainable McCain would have cleaned up the way Washington works already! And we aren't even under the threat of "disappearing" or being killed for our efforts. As far as McCain differing on policies... I have a huge problem with his statement that Iraq is the central front in the war against terrorists. Yes, there are terrorists in Iraq and we need to fight them. BUT I think that focusing on Iraq and leaving the Taliban and Al Qaeda to increase in power in Afghanistan is a much bigger threat. Most of the terrorists who have gone into Iraq have done so because we are there. Not because we have eradicated them from Afghanistan, not because they can't attack us here at home, but because we have plenty of Americans on the ground as fairly easy targets. Heck, they've now killed over 1200 more Americans in Iraq than they did on 9/11. Mission accomplished. And we helped them by sending large numbers of troops to a place where we would be busy putting out fires instead of addressing the root cause. The war in Iraq is helping to keep America safe, but only because they can actually inflict more casualties by keeping up the war in their backyard. Our enemies may have some crazy ideas but they aren't stupid. We should be working to eradicate Al Qeda and the Taliban at their root, in the place where they are busy training the fighters who end up in Iraq. One of my biggest problems with McCain is his continuing support of a war that never should have been started. It's something we have to deal with now and we certainly can't "cut and run" but that doesn't change the basic fact that this war was and is wrong. And it doesn't mean that I'm unpatriotic, unAmerican or a liberal to say that. I think that because of McCain's experiences with Vietnam he finds it distasteful to consider bringing the troops home in shame rather than in victory. In my world though, the troops are heroes for serving regardless of whether or not there's a clear "victory" at all. There is no shame in bringing our soldiers home as soon as possible. It's more shameful to keep risking soldier's limbs, lives, and mental health to keep reaching for "victory" in a war that will probably never have a clear one. I guess I jumped to conclusions in thinking that you were trying to throw “Hamas” into the conversation as another way to get people riled up about what this young man was doing. I apologize.
My only conclusion with this article is that if I were to put myself into this young man’s shoes I could understand his desire to support Obama for President of the United States. Obama has been better at coming across as being willing to use diplomacy and to listen to other viewpoints and opinions. McCain has only derided Obama for his comments on sitting down to talk to leaders, which comes across as not being willing to do the same, regardless of whether it’s in person or through an ambassador or other official. I can see where this young man could get that opinion of Obama versus McCain, even if it’s not fair or correct.
I think it’s admirable that this young man is getting an education and is showing an interest in international politics. It shows a desire on his part to better his life and I think his phone calls are just an extension of this. Whether or not Obama would actually be the better choice is a whole other debate.
I think it may be a bit naive for this man to think that any President will actually be able to improve conditions for him in his country. But it’s not naive to still hope for that. Especially when you live under the shadow of Hamas. Think about how hard it really would be to effect change in his country. Heck, think about how hard it is for one citizen to effect change in OUR country! It’s not impossible, but if it were more attainable McCain would have cleaned up the way Washington works already! And we aren’t even under the threat of “disappearing” or being killed for our efforts.
As far as McCain differing on policies… I have a huge problem with his statement that Iraq is the central front in the war against terrorists. Yes, there are terrorists in Iraq and we need to fight them. BUT I think that focusing on Iraq and leaving the Taliban and Al Qaeda to increase in power in Afghanistan is a much bigger threat. Most of the terrorists who have gone into Iraq have done so because we are there. Not because we have eradicated them from Afghanistan, not because they can’t attack us here at home, but because we have plenty of Americans on the ground as fairly easy targets. Heck, they’ve now killed over 1200 more Americans in Iraq than they did on 9/11. Mission accomplished. And we helped them by sending large numbers of troops to a place where we would be busy putting out fires instead of addressing the root cause. The war in Iraq is helping to keep America safe, but only because they can actually inflict more casualties by keeping up the war in their backyard. Our enemies may have some crazy ideas but they aren’t stupid. We should be working to eradicate Al Qeda and the Taliban at their root, in the place where they are busy training the fighters who end up in Iraq.
One of my biggest problems with McCain is his continuing support of a war that never should have been started. It’s something we have to deal with now and we certainly can’t “cut and run” but that doesn’t change the basic fact that this war was and is wrong. And it doesn’t mean that I’m unpatriotic, unAmerican or a liberal to say that. I think that because of McCain’s experiences with Vietnam he finds it distasteful to consider bringing the troops home in shame rather than in victory. In my world though, the troops are heroes for serving regardless of whether or not there’s a clear “victory” at all. There is no shame in bringing our soldiers home as soon as possible. It’s more shameful to keep risking soldier’s limbs, lives, and mental health to keep reaching for “victory” in a war that will probably never have a clear one.

]]> By: admin http://www.rwnj.org/2008/10/29/gaza-citizens-calling-asking-americans-to-vote-for-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-44 admin Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:50:10 +0000 http://www.rwnj.org/?p=105#comment-44 Nowhere in the post does it say the man is a part of Hamas nor personally believes Obama is a less staunch ally of Israel. However, in case you forgot, <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/01/26/hamas_wins_landslide_76_seats_in_parliament/" rel="nofollow">Gaza voted Hamas into power</a>. I was merely pointing out some possible conclusions and providing some links that would provide some insight into the situation. It's up to you to come up with your own conclusion, which it sounds like you did (but may not have liked). If this young man wants to get peace to his region, perhaps he should be working on changing things in Gaza and not trying to influence an election in another country. Getting rid of what even <a href="http://cameron.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/04/16/a-hamas-problem-for-obama/" rel="nofollow">Obama himself called a terrorist organization</a> would be a great start. And, if you think McCain is just Bush on foreign policy, <a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/mccain_not_bush_on_foreign_policy/" rel="nofollow">you are mistaken</a>. Also, Obama is not the only one with ideas on <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/26/ST2008082604014.html" rel="nofollow">increasing world opinion of America</a>. McCain has a <a href="http://www.america.gov/st/elections08-english/2008/July/20080725142235dmslahrellek0.8933222.html" rel="nofollow">few of his own</a>. Nowhere in the post does it say the man is a part of Hamas nor personally believes Obama is a less staunch ally of Israel. However, in case you forgot, Gaza voted Hamas into power.

I was merely pointing out some possible conclusions and providing some links that would provide some insight into the situation. It’s up to you to come up with your own conclusion, which it sounds like you did (but may not have liked).

If this young man wants to get peace to his region, perhaps he should be working on changing things in Gaza and not trying to influence an election in another country. Getting rid of what even Obama himself called a terrorist organization would be a great start.

And, if you think McCain is just Bush on foreign policy, you are mistaken. Also, Obama is not the only one with ideas on increasing world opinion of America. McCain has a few of his own.

]]> By: Patty http://www.rwnj.org/2008/10/29/gaza-citizens-calling-asking-americans-to-vote-for-obama/comment-page-1/#comment-43 Patty Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:10:04 +0000 http://www.rwnj.org/?p=105#comment-43 Here's another one where you've taken a fairly innocuous account and given it a darker shade of meaning. All that the article states is that this student is cold calling Americans to vote for Obama because he believes that Obama would help to bring peace to his region. It says absolutely NOTHING about this young man being part of Hamas or insinuating that Obama would be a "less staunch ally of Israel." Purely conjecture and possibly even paranoia on your part. Is it so hard to believe that a young man living in these conditions could really desire and hope for more peace in for his home? Anyone in his situation would hope for a leader that would push for more diplomacy and peace. And it's not surprising that most other leaders in the Middle East would want Obama. Who the heck wants more of the same of what Bush had to offer? McCain seems to fully support Bush's policies of alienating the rest of the world and refusing to even talk to leaders he doesn't like. I know it's not nearly as simplistic as this, but can you imagine what our own lives would be like if we just refused to deal with anyone we disagreed with? How could we ever get anything done? I think it's time that Americans woke up to the fact that world opinions of the US are at some of the lowest levels ever. That's not how it should be. For a country that prides itself on democracy and unity and lots of grand ideals we should have the admiration of most of the rest of the world (excluding those who support the Taliban or Islamic Fundamentalists.) Why don't we?? Here’s another one where you’ve taken a fairly innocuous account and given it a darker shade of meaning. All that the article states is that this student is cold calling Americans to vote for Obama because he believes that Obama would help to bring peace to his region. It says absolutely NOTHING about this young man being part of Hamas or insinuating that Obama would be a “less staunch ally of Israel.” Purely conjecture and possibly even paranoia on your part.
Is it so hard to believe that a young man living in these conditions could really desire and hope for more peace in for his home? Anyone in his situation would hope for a leader that would push for more diplomacy and peace.
And it’s not surprising that most other leaders in the Middle East would want Obama. Who the heck wants more of the same of what Bush had to offer? McCain seems to fully support Bush’s policies of alienating the rest of the world and refusing to even talk to leaders he doesn’t like. I know it’s not nearly as simplistic as this, but can you imagine what our own lives would be like if we just refused to deal with anyone we disagreed with? How could we ever get anything done?
I think it’s time that Americans woke up to the fact that world opinions of the US are at some of the lowest levels ever. That’s not how it should be. For a country that prides itself on democracy and unity and lots of grand ideals we should have the admiration of most of the rest of the world (excluding those who support the Taliban or Islamic Fundamentalists.) Why don’t we??

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